Best Regards,
Jim

It’s interesting that people are mentioning Linux Mint, especially Linux Mint Debian Edition. I firmly believe that if Mint ditched Ubuntu all together and used a Debian base for their flagship Linux Mint distro, that would be the final nail in Ubuntu’s coffin. LMDE gives you the ease of use and out-of-the-box-functionality of Ubuntu (non-free codecs for hardware and non-free multimedia codecs) while providing you with the stability and quality of Debian. Couple that with Mint listening to their users and providing the Cinnamon desktop as opposed to alienating their users as Ubuntu is doing with Unity. Once LMDE becomes more user-friendly than Ubuntu, it’s game-over for Ubuntu. Ubuntu users are already jumping ship from Ubuntu to Mint, and if Mint were to switch to Debian, Ubuntu itself would become obsolete.

How will Open Google Adsense sir.
Please guide me how to earn money through Google Adsense in step by step method,

I have lost heavy money in On line Data entry jobs.

Please help me Sir,
I Hope You Sir,

Be the screwdriver if that’s your nature. Don’t be a nomad. I apologize for any harshness unknowingly inflicted on you.

No apology needed… That was a great comment and you communicated your point across well.

“that’s why they started creating Unity, the Gnome project started to delay the release of Gnome3…”

So basically Unity was created just to maintain an existing standard that also sets them up for failure… 6 month releases, on the dot. There’s been quite a few instances when the six month clock starts ticking towards the end and they start scrambling. Debian, you don’t get that. They’ll release when they’re ready to release. And also, what was so wrong about staying with Gnome 2?

Been with it since 2007.

KDE ,Gnome and now XFCE are starting to bloat.

Looking for a C++ neutral desktop sans GTK or QT.

I use my server, and clients to work, I need to rely on a safe, stable system at all times. Now, that it is over with Ubuntu, I can concentrate in my work, with out to many worriers with all those unnecessary updates and changes.

Debian had make Linux great! I thank all those guys that make this possible.

Yes, why are this mob running around trashing others work? Are they doing this for MS, knowingly or not?

“Opensource is about choice, you don’t like Unity you can just swap to Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu or even just install Gnome Shell on your desktop (or just swap distro altogether).”

Amen!
If you don’t like it, you have some choices. Non wich have anything to do with whining about the distribution.
1) Adjust settings on the software. There are a lot you can do.
2) Change Window Manager if you don’t like it. It’s not like there is no other choices in Ubuntu. There are, plenty.
3) Just say “Thanks for the fish” and go to another distribution. Salute the good times you had and walk. There are lots of choices. Debian, Mint, Suse, Mint, Fedora, CentOS, etc etc

In short acknowled the good times and that you and the distribution has grown apart.

Regards
Maxim mcdebugger Kachur

For me Ubuntu is what made me chose Linux. It really stands for its caption “Linux for human beings.”. I have already used Red Hat and it was too complicated to be common men’s product. But, behind all these things, I think, everything needs a a Financial support. It really needs to.

IMHO, Donations, Branded Tee-Shirts, Branded Accessories are highly acceptable and I will choose any of these methods for the sake of my contribution. But Ubuntu, being a high quality product needs further financial support. For that, they can commercialize Ubuntu Server Editions and Industry related stuffs. As far as desktop editions are considered, they should remain free & open.

“I am not a resource of profitability for commercial organizations.”. I highly agree, if alone we are contributing something to any free product. Otherwise, I highly disagree.

My last word, even if Ubuntu thinks of commercialization, then they have to have good hardware support in the future. Needless to say, they are GPUs and Printers. These drivers should work as good as they work on any commercialized OS like Windows or Mac. They need to have lot of commercial softwares like Photoshop, etc.

From my POV, Ubuntu will not be commercialised, as it uses Linux Kernel which is open source and cannot be a part of commercial software (my guess). I don’t know about the licensing traditions. Again, there will be contributors who don’t work for Ubuntu, whose work cannot be stolen, just by a price tag. Even if they do commercialise, the contributors will fork the project and continue to develop and evolve the OS, again a hopeful guess. At last, as you have said, why would I choose a costly Linux distros when there are 699 free Linux distros.

Linux was about Linus Torvalds wanted to run Unix at home, but it was to expensive. He started to play with a scheduler, which with GNU software turned out to be a small Unix-like system. Like the OS Minix. He sent the source with it, and some others contributed. He used GPL license, and the rest we know.

Free Software and Linux, and to some extends Open Source, is all about choices. And Ubuntu gives you that too, they don’t lock you into their system, like the other two you mentioned. If you don’t like Unity, install Gnome-shell or any other window manager. If you don’t like Ubuntu, chose some other distribution.

Free Software, and its founder RMS, do aprove you being commercial with Free Software. That is why GPL looks like it does. RMS even encourage you to earn money on Free Software, like Ubuntu and RedHat does. But you have to give all source code to your customers, so they can change it or hire some other coder to fix it. That was why RMS stated GNU in the first place. Because he been denied access to the software of a printer so he could adjust it to fit their needs.

The difference between Linux distributions isn’t that large… It isn’t like moving from MS Windows to Debian or Ubuntu. You might want to look into Gentoo or DSL. The last might be what you want to try of you are into learning new stuff.

Any way it isn’t fair to compare Ubuntu to Microsoft. It’s plain wrong, as there are no connections. Not fair to Cannonical or Ubuntu community (or Linux and Free Software).

I can feel and understand your frustration, but please… Ubuntu has obviously given you lots of good times, as you get so upset by their change of a bloody window manager (which you easily can change by installing say gnome-shell, twm, xmonad, 9wm, aewm, afterstep, awesome, clfswm, ctwm, e17, dwm, evilwm, fluxbox, fvwm, i3, icewm, jwm, larswm, lwm, miwm, olwm, pekwm, scrotwm, tririum (you got the idea, these are from Debian but most/all are found in Ubuntu) or any other window manager to your likeing in the Ubuntu repository. Heck, you can even change desktop environment to KDE, Lxde or sucrose (most of these I have not tried, but you could).

By the way, you should start using metric systems, it makes sence, which feet and thumbs doesn’t.

Of course fanboi rants like this just serve to create a wider divide between Linux users and Windows or Mac users. Really, there is advocating and a professional manner, and then there is ranting in a fanboi manner.

I believe rather than advocate, you chose to rant instead. Yeah, that’s going to win fans.

I use AntiX myself … based on Debian http://antix.mepis.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

Working with computers, I have both FLOSS software and commercial (Windows, OS X) software. You use whichever your customer requires or is the best for the present job.

Needless to say, I am neither a complete FLOSS zealot, nor am I a Windows fanboy. My present desktop quintuple boots in Windows XP, Windows 7, Linux Mint Debian Xfce (default), Xubuntu 11.10, and Debian Squeeze (Xfce). I don’t run Unity because my desktop doesn’t support Compiz, period. No other reason. I may not run Windows 8 on this 7 year old system for similar reasons, so I am looking to upgrade my computer.

I support the software that my customers use, I don’t impose my value judgements. I will continue to use on my home system whatever makes sense for me to use, which means an upgraded computer will probably not support Windows XP, but that doesn’t mean the fellow down the street still using Windows 98, not connected to the Internet, will be abandoned by me or anyone else.

Frankly, these days I see people leaving Ubuntu because of Unity. It is wrong. Give the platform not the GUI a chance to prove itself. It has proved itself by facilitating major user wishes into the Linux Desktop by providing the installation of codecs during system install and such other minor details that makes a system comfortable to use.

If you would be moving to Debian, you would be facing GNOME Shell in a few months. If that’s what you are trying to escape you cannot because ultimately it will dawn upon all distros. Please give GNOME 2 a proper farewell.

As in my case, I too do not like Unity but like GNOME Shell but why should I move from Ubuntu to Fedora or openSUSE when I can have the complete Shell experience on Ubuntu. Plus it gives me the comfort of a good system – easier installation of software, and all the things I want to choose. If I want Cinnamon it’s available for Ubuntu a few clicks away. If I want Synaptic it’s a click away.

So basically, if you don’t like commercialization identify them and throw it away which you can’t do with Apple but can definitely achieve on Ubuntu. Be the screwdriver if that’s your nature. Don’t be a nomad.

I apologize for any harshness unknowingly inflicted on you.

History… that’s why they started creating Unity, the Gnome project started to delay the release of Gnome3 and it seemed that they were going to redo the same mistakes as the KDE project (and they did to a lesser extent, you just have to look at the reactions at the release of Gnome 3.0).

Opensource is about choice, you don’t like Unity you can just swap to Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu or even just install Gnome Shell on your desktop (or just swap distro altogether).

Is Ubuntu turning into Microsoft? Of course not, try to make money with opensource doesn’t turn you into Microsoft, it turns you into Redhat, or Novell (Attachmate?).

Will let you know when I’ve installed Mint Debian!

regards

Mint with cinnamon is the only thing keeping me from having to take it a step beyond into, “create your own” land. This was all supposed to be, at one point, a part of my stress-free lifestyle and now has become a war of frustration. I want to say that I don’t care about it either way, but I really do so much that I think that’s what the developers and owners are not realizing. The battle against “the stupids” on a daily basis is often in being able to show others a better way, not the reverse.

So what happened? First kde, then gnome, then ubuntu all supposedly open source community driven, all one after another told the communities that created them and brought them to life to go blow it. And look what we are left with, xfce? i.e. starting over from scratch? I show up at a noobs with a win 98 looking machine talking like its the gift from the gods and they think I’m mental. They want to see kde(windeers) or gnome(the useless click machine) or the famous ubu (which I do not doubt will go down mandriva road). This is what they give us? That or we’re left on downgrading the system to unsupported software just to make it usable. And to think, I was once proud of seeing a linux at walmart computer and thinking, “at last, it’s begun”, and now its, “here we go again”.

It’s my money, my computer, and I’ll do with it as I please, and currently, it’s going to CinnaMint. (I made that name up, So I guess I own the copyright, now to make $$$ off other peoples love and work, ohhh yeah…)

Wait, what did I just say? ;p

I think what happened with your Wifi card was that there was only proprietary (non-free) drivers available. And I think by default the installation will only load the free ones. So after the install you searched and found the drivers that would have originally been included if you had selected the option to allow non-free during the install. I think issues like this is what cause many people to default back to Ubuntu. With Ubuntu, my perception is that they don’t really care who has the drivers or where they’re located. They want to make sure that your system powers up flawlessly. Even if this means that using commercialize drivers. But then again, I could be wrong… Often when I install Ubuntu I’ll get a hardware message about Nvidia graphics software needs to be downloaded. But then again, that might just be the software and not the actual driver.

A number of years ago I used Debian because it had some nice professional astronomy packages included and because colleagues of mine at the radio observatory used Debian. Then came the day that I decided to switch to something else and since we had a Slackware guru in our department, I thought og trying it. It was sort of a pain because some things didn’t work. For example, I would have liked to have Skype discussions with other colleagues but it never worked on the Slackware machines.

A couple weeks ago, I got a four year old laptop back from my son and decided to install Ubuntu on it and experiment a bit. I just couldn’t believe how smooth it went and everything works! Then I also installed it on a netbook. But I still had my eyes on Debian because, as far as I could tell, it has a good reputation. So I got the Squeeze install DVD and a couple of days ago install it on another laptop (I now have three!!!). At first there was something wrong with the wireless but after relatively litle effort I found out that some Firmware was missing. Searched for it on the internet and was really surprised to find a .deb package for it! Downloaded it, installed it and in literally less than a minute later, the wireless network was recognized and I could connect! I was really impressed.

I guess that I would have had a similar good experience with some other Linux distros as well. I am mostly into astrophysics research and is more interested in scientific computing than all sorts of bells and whistles, and nice looking desktops. From the replies on this discussion it seems to me that there are some clued up people here who can give me a real thumbs up or down for continuing with Debian or not. How do you eg handle the slow release of upgrades etc etc????

Thanx!!

Thought I’d come back in time and write my comment. Afterall, your emails are in a subdirectory in My Thinderbird.

I don’t throw old computers away. They come in handy at times. I create an image of the pc. I use it as a test bad to install demo software to see what works and if I need to install new software on my main computer I can test it before committing.
Some parts are reducndant like video cards and memory but I tend to keep using the old pc until the very end.

We have 3 recycled computers in the house back from the days of the single core cpu. I tell you what works well, if you can get a small form factor old dells or other brands they make a great addition to the kids room for those needed things like homework, and basic internet. When I say kids, I really mean kids under 12.

But, as there are more and more new apps coming out or upgraded then you really need lots of RAM and atleast twin core cpus.

Cheers!
Oz

I’m really happy with by 3GS, it really fits my needs.

thanks fro the share though!

akos

My reason for sticking with Debian is probably nothing more than brand loyalty, nowadays.

Originally it was me liking what they stood for and enjoyed how everything was put together.

Also, I’ve been very keen to have a look look at the RPM distros, but they lack something similar and simple to software-center (and yes, I know packagekit).

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68696

And somewhere in the mailing list, I asked a solution to the outdated Debian stable and the testing branch.
For Desktop systems, Debian stable is too old, and testing is too dynamic. We need 1 year (or 6 months may be) release cycles for Desktops.

If you use multi-platform supported free (or non free) apps, then switching to either side occasionally will not much bother you. Eg. firefox, openoffice, softmaker office etc.

Now in 2011, my love affair with Ubuntu has come to an end, quite disappointingly. The polished turd they call “Unity” makes the system completely unusable. It seems that the vast majority of existing Linux users agree about this. Most of us seem to have switched to Xfce because it’s one of the few remaining desktops that is committed to actually looking and working like a desktop, instead of like an overgrown, broken smartphone.

But without the pretty desktop, what’s the point in staying with Ubuntu? This is what led me to conclude that Ubuntu has “jumped the shark” and the game is essentially over for them. I switched to Debian. And I discovered that aside from the desktop, most of the things I liked about Ubuntu were actually simply brought in from the Debian repositories.

Ubuntu — In pace requiescat!

2nd
Redhat/Centos will not allow you to add packages that the user may want or need. Centos websites says “That the system comes with everything that a user will need” oh really! Even to the point that they don’t include a package management icon, and when you try to install thru yum, the package is non-existent. What happened to freedom ?

3rd
FC 15 comes with 2 update icons, one says update ….with no S, and the other is updates….with an S. No one on the FC team noticed that ?

Makes you wonder what else is or was missed, before that 6 mo period was up.

As far as an OS, Redhat/Centos/Fedora are rock solid. But, to have these imperfection on your system, that’s not good. And, trying to sell these ideals to your boss with these imperfections, can be hard. We’re a small company, on even a smaller I.T. budget. And, buying Redhat with tech support is not an option. Going from Windows to Linux was hard enough.

I am going to try Debian, I have played with Ubuntu in the past. And, feel that the corporate world has……..done something to it, that I don’t like. I don’t get that warm and fuzzy feeling about it. Or maybe it’s heartburn.

Will see how Debian does. I have a feeling that I have a new OS.

First, I must point out that Mint is a fork of Ubuntu, Ubuntu is a fork of Debian. A good analogy would be Mint is the son, Ubuntu is the father and Debian is the grandfather.

I am actually suprised to see so much negativity around Ubuntu. Ubuntu is great for introducing a Windows person to Linux. Everything works out of the box, just like Windows. It support non-free drivers and software, this includes flash and multimedia codecs needed to play DVD movies on Linux and the necessary hardware drivers including non-free are automagically installed. Which was the reason I switched from Debian to Ubuntu back in 2007. As a desktop Linux, it is a great distro. From my experience using both, they have the same stability and dependability. And yes Debian is more stable than Ubuntu, provided you use Debian stable and does not mess with unstable and definitely not with testing.

Debian is a great OS, stable and dependable, been using it since Woody (circa 2002) was introduced, but it sticks too much to the Free Software philosophy. Granted that there are non-free drivers and software available stored on non-free repository, however using them IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) is against the Debian Free Software philosophy. Personally for me, if I am going to install a Debian, I will install a pure Debian (free software only), which means some hardware may not work and some software such as adobe flash and multimedia codecs needed to run DVD movies are not available. Which is fine for a server environment, but for a desktop it is a huge disadvantage. With the release of Debian 6 (squeeze) earlier this year, I hoped it has accumulated enough hardware drivers to work out of the box. I rarely watched DVD movies on my laptop anymore, so multimedia codecs is no longer important, and if iPad users can get by without flash, so can I with Debian.

I have limited experience with Mint, only briefly played with Live CD version of it. I have been hearing a lot of great things about Mint, flash and multimedia codecs are readily available just like Ubuntu. Which means it is great for a replacement to Ubuntu. I heavily disliked the Ubuntu Unity introduced in 10.04. It was rough and changed too much things that I am used to do. Which is why I consider moving to Mint.

Overall I find this post and the comments to be a very interesting read. Keep up the good work!

Thank you.

Iv’e had nothing but success setting up and running Ubuntu server 10.04. Works great, Iv’e set up 4 of them with no problems so far and it’s been over a year.

Only a lunatic would try to do the same with version 11.04 and expect no problems.

In fact I would say only a knucklehead would want to update to what is basically a beta release. (11.04) The short term releases are rmeant as a sort of test bed for the community to try out some of the newer features before there are implemented into the next long term release.

Every odd number is a short term release and the even numbers are Long Term Releases. ie version 10 is LTS, so 10.04 is a stable and long term supported version (5 years) where as Ubuntu 11 is not a LTS and I wouldn’t install it except as an experimental version.

I did not have issues with my M1530. If you want, you can email me (garry@garryconn.com) your Dell service tag # and I will compare your system against mine to see if there’s a different wifi card used. I do remember that sometimes it didn’t work right away and there was a prompt for me to try again. Always after the second try it worked fine.

I just booted puppy 5.2.8 on my M1530 and had no luck with the wireless. I tried the various broadcom modules and fooled aroind with ndiswrapper a little to no avail. You didnt indicate any wireless issues. Thoughts?

Regards,
Lucas

Microsoft always with the latest, leading, innovative technology… je, je, je…

Saludos desde Argentina.

I have lost heavy money in On line Net jobs.

Please help me Sir,
Thanking you Sir,
Yours truly,
Thirupathy

tell what to do sir.

Thanks
ITSOL Technologies

I totally agree that people should be creative in wanting to earn a living. I agree people should do exactly what was done 200 years ago. Just imagine: had the Internet technology existed 200 years ago, the world would have been a better place.

As to text editing I don’t understand your claim. gedit is the default text editor under Gnome; easy to use, and runs circles around Notepad. I don’t get the sense you gave Ubuntu a fair try, and that’s fine. Just bear in mind if you stay on “microsoft” you will continue to pay and pay. I refused to pay even 10 cents for “vista.”

Steve

So here I am, thinking about Debian again. I remembered the thrill of playing a text-based version of Minefield while the installer of Debian downloaded packages – I wonder if that is still there..

Hmm.. ..we’ll see how it goes.

The Juke

That is wonderful to hear you have found an alternative more suited working environment. I know from first hand how it is to have young children around while working. Work slows to a standstill.

Best of luck!
Oz